Half of people seems like a lot. I think I've seen something like 5-10% have some kind of cluster B personality disorder. There are a lot of people that have self-esteem and other problems and don't relate well with others, but this is very different from people with Cluster B. There are things to look for: Is this person capable of apologizing? Do the revise events to conform more closely to their narratives? Do they often try to extract promises? Are they supportive in time of crisis? Are they supportive in general?
Many people might do a few. But, a pattern that includes all of the above? That's a smaller percentage and a group you have to be very careful in your interactions, if you have any at all.
Such a fantastic article, I finally got a chance to sit down and digest this. Thank you for pointing the way for me to read this, very much appreciated π€
games pf power, control, and manipulation. social media likes to call it "narcissism" and cry about "narcissists" but it's far more than that, and it's happening on a grand scale in our political arena.
as someone who escaped this abuse too many times and is gratefully alive and healing, this is abuse. i think it's important to understand that when people want power and control, they'll do and say anything to keep it. abuseandrelationships. org is a resource i often recommend, created by a therapist to help victims understand these manipulations in their interpersonal dynamics, and provide strategies to protecting their health and safety.
and hopefully some people will find that useful, either in the micro or the macro. this is abuse, this is oppression, this is white supremacy, this blocks our freedom. so glad you're diving into these topics right now.
"I once prayed for wisdom. Wisdom is experience..." Man O man, ain't that the truth. I find it hard to grasp how anyone could treat you that way, but as G.B. Shaw once wrote (in Saint Joan): "I am the wiser now, and no one is ever the worse for being wiser."
Hmmmm..... I thought so, also, that 50% seemed an extravagent claim. My first thought was: we move in different circles, but that didn't cut it. Then when I read the list of signs and symptoms, I thought well, no wonder, it's awfully inclusive -- and therefore? all a bit fuzzy. I'm pretty sure fuzzy is a word you might really detest being applied to your wonderful self/topics/thinking -- I don't mean it in an ad hominum way: just trying to hone in on how I might find this useful along your stated lines. In many cases, a rose is a rose by another name -- possibly condensing such a broad range of behaviours under one banner is refreshingly novel, and therapeutically savvy?? not sure.
I know you love the "impeccable" and also the "pristine": 2 words used in the Bem research article recently posted. You have very high standards, which I do so admire. You clearly hold yourself to account, and I am inspired to do the same by most, if not all, of what you share/write.
So for instance, when reading the list at the end: oh no, I thought to myself: guilty!!!!!! (Insults. Someone references you, or your social circle / group, in a demeaning or diminishing way. For example, the person may not use a derogatory term to your face .....) My nemesis situation is the dog park. Just this morning, I was enjoying kvetching about a woman with infant strapped to chest, 2 dogs, and a ball thrower, but most egregiously, a f'in phone she could not keep her gaze off. So not just irritated, but also judgmental was my posture. (I have a puppy who is INSANE around ball throwers -- managable with some user friendly owners, not with others) I will not go into the song and dance of all the things irritating, and in fact, after doing the right thing, and locking my dog up in the pen, the other woman, oblivous, wandering around, eyes on phone, dawdling, I got sick of it, let my dog out, sure enough a scene: to my great satisfaction, the woman then swapped places with me, locking herself and her dogs into the smaller area. A great outcome: partly (or wholly) generated by directing my attention to the desirable elements in thinking of the present .... but then I slandered her to others, when she left. Reflects poorly on me: but tho I am guilty of employing in certain circumstances, with certain people, some of the strategies you outline, I'm pretty sure I am not a predatory personality.
I like your answer to Claudine: practice remorse, apologies, effort. That's me. that's why I'm not a predator, tho I am not impeccable. I think maybe lumping these two together: "to use force over another or derive a sense of power from anotherβs suffering." is the beginning of the fuzzy.
I do agree that making another feel inferior is anathema: and to drop them like a hot cake sound advice. My family of origin, especially my mother, are masters at mostly unconsciously using this tactic: with extremely conscious effects experienced by the object of contempt: cos they're family I don't really need or want to banish them; but I would like to internally improve at recognizing all the small and large moments when this is employed. I do think predator/prey is a useful device. not sure it's as black and white as the piece suggests tho. not quite sure why I've wanted to rant on .... but there you have it :)
Half of people seems like a lot. I think I've seen something like 5-10% have some kind of cluster B personality disorder. There are a lot of people that have self-esteem and other problems and don't relate well with others, but this is very different from people with Cluster B. There are things to look for: Is this person capable of apologizing? Do the revise events to conform more closely to their narratives? Do they often try to extract promises? Are they supportive in time of crisis? Are they supportive in general?
Many people might do a few. But, a pattern that includes all of the above? That's a smaller percentage and a group you have to be very careful in your interactions, if you have any at all.
i've been a practicing psychotherapist for almost 20 years and this is an amazing essay!
What would you prescribe for a person who recognizes some of these behaviors in himself or herself?
Remorse, apologies, effort. That's what I attempt when I fail another.
Such a fantastic article, I finally got a chance to sit down and digest this. Thank you for pointing the way for me to read this, very much appreciated π€
games pf power, control, and manipulation. social media likes to call it "narcissism" and cry about "narcissists" but it's far more than that, and it's happening on a grand scale in our political arena.
as someone who escaped this abuse too many times and is gratefully alive and healing, this is abuse. i think it's important to understand that when people want power and control, they'll do and say anything to keep it. abuseandrelationships. org is a resource i often recommend, created by a therapist to help victims understand these manipulations in their interpersonal dynamics, and provide strategies to protecting their health and safety.
and hopefully some people will find that useful, either in the micro or the macro. this is abuse, this is oppression, this is white supremacy, this blocks our freedom. so glad you're diving into these topics right now.
"I once prayed for wisdom. Wisdom is experience..." Man O man, ain't that the truth. I find it hard to grasp how anyone could treat you that way, but as G.B. Shaw once wrote (in Saint Joan): "I am the wiser now, and no one is ever the worse for being wiser."
Hmmmm..... I thought so, also, that 50% seemed an extravagent claim. My first thought was: we move in different circles, but that didn't cut it. Then when I read the list of signs and symptoms, I thought well, no wonder, it's awfully inclusive -- and therefore? all a bit fuzzy. I'm pretty sure fuzzy is a word you might really detest being applied to your wonderful self/topics/thinking -- I don't mean it in an ad hominum way: just trying to hone in on how I might find this useful along your stated lines. In many cases, a rose is a rose by another name -- possibly condensing such a broad range of behaviours under one banner is refreshingly novel, and therapeutically savvy?? not sure.
I know you love the "impeccable" and also the "pristine": 2 words used in the Bem research article recently posted. You have very high standards, which I do so admire. You clearly hold yourself to account, and I am inspired to do the same by most, if not all, of what you share/write.
So for instance, when reading the list at the end: oh no, I thought to myself: guilty!!!!!! (Insults. Someone references you, or your social circle / group, in a demeaning or diminishing way. For example, the person may not use a derogatory term to your face .....) My nemesis situation is the dog park. Just this morning, I was enjoying kvetching about a woman with infant strapped to chest, 2 dogs, and a ball thrower, but most egregiously, a f'in phone she could not keep her gaze off. So not just irritated, but also judgmental was my posture. (I have a puppy who is INSANE around ball throwers -- managable with some user friendly owners, not with others) I will not go into the song and dance of all the things irritating, and in fact, after doing the right thing, and locking my dog up in the pen, the other woman, oblivous, wandering around, eyes on phone, dawdling, I got sick of it, let my dog out, sure enough a scene: to my great satisfaction, the woman then swapped places with me, locking herself and her dogs into the smaller area. A great outcome: partly (or wholly) generated by directing my attention to the desirable elements in thinking of the present .... but then I slandered her to others, when she left. Reflects poorly on me: but tho I am guilty of employing in certain circumstances, with certain people, some of the strategies you outline, I'm pretty sure I am not a predatory personality.
I like your answer to Claudine: practice remorse, apologies, effort. That's me. that's why I'm not a predator, tho I am not impeccable. I think maybe lumping these two together: "to use force over another or derive a sense of power from anotherβs suffering." is the beginning of the fuzzy.
I do agree that making another feel inferior is anathema: and to drop them like a hot cake sound advice. My family of origin, especially my mother, are masters at mostly unconsciously using this tactic: with extremely conscious effects experienced by the object of contempt: cos they're family I don't really need or want to banish them; but I would like to internally improve at recognizing all the small and large moments when this is employed. I do think predator/prey is a useful device. not sure it's as black and white as the piece suggests tho. not quite sure why I've wanted to rant on .... but there you have it :)